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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show on Martin

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will assure host at podcast UFO I want

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to thank you for joining the show that's

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needing evening I'm really excited about

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our guests I've met charlie faults about

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four or five years ago and when he was

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up in Maine at a conference great guy I

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met him along with Jim Jim Weiner both

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from the allagash abduction we're going

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to be talking all about that and I want

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to thank everyone that supports the show

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oh I should say Alejandro Rojas is

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coming up before that with the UFO

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updates and I as far as the where the

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allagash you know someone wrote me where

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is the Allagash I mean you can look on

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the map or google it but well I live on

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to what's called Midcoast Maine which

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takes a while to get to from the New

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Hampshire border I don't know a few

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hours it's not exactly in the middle of

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nowhere but I looked on the map today

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and and I did you know a search and it's

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it's a five and a half hour drive from

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where I live and I think it is exactly

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in the middle of nowhere

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it's way the heck up in Maine near the

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Canada border in the center center of

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Maine and it's quite a place there's

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really there was someone living in that

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area for something like 20 years without

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any human contact and that was within

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the last say I don't know I think he

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came out of the woods like five or six

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years ago yeah that's really not a lot

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going on in that area and let's see I

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want to do just a couple of shout outs

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supporter Nicholas Lazarus he wanted me

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to say hi and anyone that supports the

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show you can send me an e-mail I'll give

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you a shout out also Kelly Kelly who was

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sick in bed but said that she's still

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going to listen to the show so I hope

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you feel better and just in the last 24

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hours I had a couple of power outages

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and hopefully that won't happen and the

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reason is

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I've got some heavy snow up here in

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Maine and so all day long the snows been

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sliding off the roof and making a loud

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crash it sounds like it's the end of the

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world so if you happen to hear that it's

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not the end of the world so we're okay

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and I guess I am ready to bring in the

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one and only Alejandro Rojas hello my

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friend how are you doing I'm doing great

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have you been you I trust you have no

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snow in Arizona right now snow yay in

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fact at open minds one of the people

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that we work with some of you may

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remember her Heather if you went to the

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UFO Congress she has a company called no

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snow out here where she does she rent

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out paddleboards but yep it's a big

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saying out here for those of us very

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happy not to be dealing with snow ever

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in our lives yeah yeah you don't have to

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shovel rain right yes I've had enough of

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that in my life right right so what's

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going on in the UFO world all right so I

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do want to say because I was just

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looking at what the first story I'm

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going to talk about which I'm very proud

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of but I'm also very proud of open minds

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on our YouTube we have a video that's

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extremely popular it keeps getting you

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know so many hits and that is our short

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little documentary on the allagash and

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it was you know I wanted Michael Klein

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helped put together some of my

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interviews but also of course some of

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these interviews were at the

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International UFO Congress so everybody

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who helped out with that but so we all

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worked really hard to put that together

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and we're really really proud of that

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piece and I'm so happy that so many out

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there are enjoying it but I wanted to

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mention that before your show today yeah

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there's like 400,000 something views on

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that right yeah and more all the time I

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mean it's I think our most popular video

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has been for like the last year john

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alexander video and a Travis Walton

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willing get a lot of use to but yeah

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it's so popular and I'm happy that so

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many are getting educated and getting to

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know these guys through that piece so

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right I was so proud and so happy that

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we were able to put that together so

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people could get to know everybody that

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was involved with it

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because just kind of like Travis you

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know getting to know these guys is part

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of understanding you know the

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credibility of these cases right so I

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think a lot of like your listeners will

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find that out during the show but I'm

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also very proud of my latest in of geek

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article which is called Project Blue

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Book Easter egg and reference guide of

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course all these stories you can find on

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the front page of open mind TV but this

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story what I did is my editors at den of

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geek and then I filled some gaps on some

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things that I hadn't written reviews on

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but we made this big guide for all of

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the legit cases that were covered in the

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Project Blue Book season 1 and some of

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the Easter eggs cuz they referenced real

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cases that only UFO geeks like us would

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have gotten so I also wrote about those

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and then I have links to the real

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project blue file blue book files so

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it's just a bunch of really great

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credible stuff that was covered during

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the show that others might not be aware

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of

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no no having a camera are you having an

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earthquake there yeah earthquake Wow

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actually just gotta tighten them screw

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there but yeah so I'd love for everybody

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to check that out now that the show is

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over what do what is your overall thumbs

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up thumbs down thumbs sideways what was

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the question

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for Project Blue Book the TV show oh I I

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really enjoyed it I realized that it's

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it's a fiction you know and and you know

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it's loosely based on the real incidents

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but overall I think it's a very

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captivating show with great characters

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that's yeah I agree I'm with you there

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I'm totally with you there and I know

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some people will be like no I ain't at

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the show but I'm with you there other

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really there's a lot of interesting news

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actually that came out this week another

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interesting story was an interview by

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the Metro with Nick Pope now this is a

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UK tabloid and they can get kind of zany

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but Nick was saying some really

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interesting things he's saying that he

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was told by witnesses that some people

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related to he didn't want to say

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specifically

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for sure Rendlesham although he alludes

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to it say that they had DNA and blood

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taken that samples taken by a group who

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said they were doing some scientific or

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academic research on people who have had

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experiences and of course in the

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Rendlesham forest they had an incredible

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UFO experience there some military guys

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such as John Burroughs and Jim Penniston

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and he's saying that he believes that

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actually these were part of a tip or

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they were part of this government

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program but they were not told that when

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the samples were taken he's not saying

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oh these guys are all bad and it's at

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this major conspiracy theory he's going

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beyond that and saying we did this in

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the Ministry of Defense for the UK that

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he was personally involved with doing

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the same Thor that sort of things saying

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that not necessarily lying just saying

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this is gonna be as part of a scientific

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research but just not sharing that well

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this is scientific research for the

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Department of Defense or Ministry of

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Defence they because they call it out

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there so really interesting he even

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alluded to actually I think he sent this

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to me personally but I'm gonna write

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about it and he wrote about it in honest

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tweet that this was even partially due

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to some psychic testing some essentially

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remote viewing sort of programs that

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they were looking into the UK so that is

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a really interesting story that's out

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there I think yeah yeah good one now

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he's not saying he knows for sure he's

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just saying we did this in the UK so I

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wouldn't be surprised if they did that

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over here and some witnesses he's talked

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to seem to be implying that but speaking

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of the remote viewing program there's a

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great documentary out there called third

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eye spies and it goes over kind of how

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good off who's working with to the stars

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and worked with Bigelow and a tip and

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everybody how he was involved with

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getting remote viewing started here in

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the US and this was all started for the

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most part because the government had

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heard the military had heard that the

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Russians were doing remote viewing and

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there's a story out in Newsweek this

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week it's called Russia's paranormal so

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soldiers and military dolphin to the

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telepathy revealed by defense

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industry magazine so a Russian defence

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ministry magazine wrote an article about

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how they had researched things like

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telepathy and remote viewing in these

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sort of things so that's an article

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that's out in Newsweek now it doesn't

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seem like the Russians have the same

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major giggle factor that we have over

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here but I kind of feel like the giggle

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factor is lessening as time goes on and

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we hear more about these programs but

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really the pro the public I still think

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still doesn't know how seriously you

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know UFOs and remote viewing was taken

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by the government but they're learning

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more over time so those were some really

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good ones and then one final one I want

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to touch on it's another one from a UK

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tabloid probably because they'd be the

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only one to pick it up but a production

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person Robert Kirby at so some of you

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might not know his name but you've

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definitely seen his programs because

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he's one of the main most prolific UFO

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program producers television producers

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out there if we start looking at the

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credits you'll see his name all over the

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place someone like myself or maybe even

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Martin you might have talked to him

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before but he is actually suing Ron

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Pandolfi who is someone who worked on

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what has been referred to as the CIA's

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weird desk essentially had worked with

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the CIA on some of their weird and salt

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files but he's saying he had worked on a

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program with them on anti-gravity and

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he's suing because he said they kind of

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just screwed him over on the fun's

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related to that program but he's suing

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them also so he can reveal that the CIA

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has been involved with disinformation

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programs in the in the UFO field so he

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says he's going to be able to reveal

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some of this he's not really giving us

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much in the way of details but yeah

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that's another really good one that is

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something well and he's just throwing

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the UFOs in there yeah I guess he's kind

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of alluding to that he discovered this

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sort of stuff when he was working

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Pandolfi with Pandolfi but I wonder if

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this is gonna be one of these moments

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this happened with William Moore who is

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one of the first guys to write about

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Roswell who came out and said he

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actually was part of a disinformation

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program for like a decade

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00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:35,640
without UFO researchers knowing so I

272
00:11:38,660 --> 00:11:37,170
wonder if Robert kiveat it's gonna say

273
00:11:40,490 --> 00:11:38,670
you know I was actually part of this

274
00:11:42,950 --> 00:11:40,500
program kiveat one of the most well

275
00:11:45,140 --> 00:11:42,960
known things he's known for is releasing

276
00:11:48,650 --> 00:11:45,150
that hoax

277
00:11:50,810 --> 00:11:48,660
Roswell autopsy video oh he was an

278
00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:50,820
integral part of that he released the

279
00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:53,640
video of the autopsy and then he also

280
00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:56,310
did a documentary revealing how it was a

281
00:12:00,830 --> 00:11:56,820
hoax

282
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:00,840
huh in both ends there yeah isn't that

283
00:12:03,890 --> 00:12:01,530
something

284
00:12:05,630 --> 00:12:03,900
yeah does it fill up mantle that did a

285
00:12:07,940 --> 00:12:05,640
lot of work on that yeah

286
00:12:09,650 --> 00:12:07,950
Phillip manacle has done a great job on

287
00:12:12,380 --> 00:12:09,660
debunking that whole thing and working

288
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:12,390
with the guys who actually made the

289
00:12:16,970 --> 00:12:15,210
props and conducted the whole thing and

290
00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:16,980
they kind of got screwed over actually

291
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:17,910
because there was this television

292
00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:20,730
producer guy who prompted them to do it

293
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:22,230
and was paying them and then there was

294
00:12:26,540 --> 00:12:24,330
this whole fight you know as it became

295
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:26,550
it just became once kiveat

296
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:28,530
made the documentary it became more

297
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:30,450
popular than I think any of them would

298
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:33,090
have known it's just extremely famous

299
00:12:37,550 --> 00:12:35,610
even to this day I think there may be

300
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,560
listeners or as people hear me calling

301
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:39,360
it a hoax that will say no it was no

302
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:42,090
hoax man but Phillip Mantle's done a

303
00:12:46,250 --> 00:12:44,610
great job demonstrating that yes it was

304
00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:46,260
a hoax and we know who did it and why

305
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:48,690
and all the details behind it at this

306
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:49,050
point

307
00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:50,850
yeah there was a little bit of cash made

308
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:54,840
there so yes yeah all right thanks so

309
00:12:59,840 --> 00:12:57,330
much yep my pleasure thank you all right

310
00:13:00,350 --> 00:12:59,850
sure we'll see you next week see ya all

311
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:00,360
right bye-bye

312
00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:04,770
all right so our guest is Charlie volts

313
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:06,870
and like I said earlier I met him a

314
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:10,050
number of years ago and also hung out

315
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:14,610
with him out in Phoenix Arizona and it's

316
00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:18,090
really my pleasure to invite him on this

317
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:23,310
show Charlie welcome to the show hi good

318
00:13:27,470 --> 00:13:24,690
evening how you doing tonight

319
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:27,480
I'm doing great always a pleasure

320
00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:29,040
talking to you we've had a number of

321
00:13:34,670 --> 00:13:31,500
conversations over the years and always

322
00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:34,680
always a real pleasure and Charlie I

323
00:13:39,830 --> 00:13:37,620
have a lot of new listeners to the show

324
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:39,840
well there's a lot of people that are

325
00:13:44,930 --> 00:13:42,930
who are into UFOs certainly know the

326
00:13:46,130 --> 00:13:44,940
story but there's also a lot of people

327
00:13:48,590 --> 00:13:46,140
out there that never

328
00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:48,600
ever heard of it this is one particular

329
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:51,420
show that I have to tell you that I

330
00:13:57,890 --> 00:13:55,290
actually remember hearing about years

331
00:14:01,790 --> 00:13:57,900
ago when I wasn't even in the UFO topic

332
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:01,800
I was working somewhere and someone told

333
00:14:07,070 --> 00:14:04,890
me about the allagash up in Maine which

334
00:14:09,650 --> 00:14:07,080
I had already heard of I've never been

335
00:14:11,420 --> 00:14:09,660
there but they told me about there was

336
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:11,430
an abduction there and I remember

337
00:14:14,690 --> 00:14:12,690
hearing about it I said what is that I

338
00:14:17,780 --> 00:14:14,700
had no idea what what they were talking

339
00:14:19,790 --> 00:14:17,790
about but it's one of the very few I

340
00:14:22,130 --> 00:14:19,800
never heard about Travis Walton I never

341
00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:22,140
heard a number of things I did hear of

342
00:14:26,630 --> 00:14:25,080
Betty and Barney Hill but just very few

343
00:14:28,340 --> 00:14:26,640
things when I was not really paying

344
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,350
attention to the topic but the allagash

345
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:30,480
I did hear oh so if you wouldn't mind

346
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:31,440
charlie

347
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:33,690
can you just tell the new listening

348
00:14:37,820 --> 00:14:36,480
audience what happened a lot happened we

349
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:37,830
do have to take a break about ten

350
00:14:46,660 --> 00:14:40,530
minutes from now but I'll cut in if I

351
00:14:55,850 --> 00:14:46,670
have to then go ahead and far away well

352
00:15:00,410 --> 00:14:55,860
in 1976 I went on a wilderness excursion

353
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:00,420
trip with some college friends and

354
00:15:09,470 --> 00:15:05,730
neighbors my neighbors and were Jack and

355
00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:09,480
Jim Wiener and we had all offended the

356
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:13,230
same college together and we had planned

357
00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:17,760
on taking a canoe trip and northern

358
00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:21,390
Maine and climbing Mount Katahdin in the

359
00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:27,140
process one of the people who I met

360
00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:28,980
actually

361
00:15:37,540 --> 00:15:32,550
when I loaded my gear in the car to

362
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:37,550
drive to Maine was Chuck Rock he had

363
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:48,240
known Jack from the college and we spent

364
00:15:57,950 --> 00:15:52,170
as you mentioned earlier quite a number

365
00:15:59,840 --> 00:15:57,960
of hours driving with all of our gear in

366
00:16:05,420 --> 00:15:59,850
a shed

367
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:05,430
Vega which is is a small automobile yeah

368
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:08,610
it was good we were all skinny guys back

369
00:16:18,590 --> 00:16:10,410
then because we wouldn't be able to do

370
00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:18,600
it today and we arrived in Baxter State

371
00:16:28,759 --> 00:16:24,360
Park which is the beginning or the end

372
00:16:32,530 --> 00:16:28,769
of the Appalachian Trail depending upon

373
00:16:36,079 --> 00:16:32,540
which direction you started

374
00:16:42,410 --> 00:16:36,089
Malky tagging is the highest mountain in

375
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:42,420
maine at 13 feet short of one vertical

376
00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:48,290
mile there's a Karen of rocks that

377
00:17:03,530 --> 00:16:52,110
actually make it up one foot over one

378
00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:03,540
mile so we spent a couple of days in

379
00:17:12,740 --> 00:17:07,140
Baxter State Park climbing the mountain

380
00:17:19,159 --> 00:17:12,750
then purchasing all the perishable get

381
00:17:23,949 --> 00:17:19,169
food that we could buy to last us you

382
00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:23,959
know several days into our trip and

383
00:17:35,950 --> 00:17:28,590
drove all probably about 40 minutes

384
00:17:43,399 --> 00:17:35,960
north of Baxter State Park to a small

385
00:17:47,330 --> 00:17:43,409
bush pilots business and loaded half of

386
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:47,340
our gear and one canoe strapped to the

387
00:17:58,909 --> 00:17:53,690
pontoon at his plane and Jack and I

388
00:18:04,220 --> 00:17:58,919
that's Jack Wiener and I took off for

389
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:04,230
Tilos landing which is the beginning of

390
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:08,880
the Allagash water system and it's also

391
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:19,640
park property the allagash was or is one

392
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:26,090
of two rivers which flow north into

393
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:31,110
Canada or to the was at the st. Francis

394
00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:35,090
which st. John st. John excuse me which

395
00:18:58,430 --> 00:18:54,019
flying into Tilos landing every group

396
00:19:02,269 --> 00:18:58,440
has to register with the wardens so they

397
00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:02,279
can check on your itinerary your

398
00:19:09,399 --> 00:19:04,860
provisions make sure that you're

399
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:09,409
prepared to go on a trip like that

400
00:19:24,649 --> 00:19:17,840
so after Chuck and Jim arrived the on

401
00:19:28,399 --> 00:19:24,659
second trip for the pilot we made camp

402
00:19:34,010 --> 00:19:28,409
for the night and then the following day

403
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:34,020
began our canoe trip Chuck rack and I

404
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:38,850
had both had some canoe experience Chuck

405
00:19:55,779 --> 00:19:47,370
had gone on the allagash once earlier

406
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:55,789
and so we more or less were intrigued by

407
00:20:10,330 --> 00:19:59,360
going on the trip with somebody that had

408
00:20:18,669 --> 00:20:10,340
done it before well it took the twins a

409
00:20:22,899 --> 00:20:18,679
couple of days to get into canoeing and

410
00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:22,909
understanding what they were doing and

411
00:20:42,930 --> 00:20:34,520
all began working as a group team

412
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:42,940
quickly went up Lake Champlain and tried

413
00:20:55,710 --> 00:20:47,050
to go up to allagash lake which is a

414
00:21:00,090 --> 00:20:55,720
primitive lake however the water level

415
00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:00,100
was really high in it the current swept

416
00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:04,750
and the only way to go up there is if

417
00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:10,590
your expert at poling because paddling

418
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:16,030
is just an impossible feat we were all

419
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:20,610
in our 20s and in good physical shape

420
00:21:29,690 --> 00:21:25,210
paddling as hard as we could we were

421
00:21:33,540 --> 00:21:29,700
looking at the same view for you know

422
00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:33,550
minutes on end because we weren't going

423
00:21:38,220 --> 00:21:34,420
anywhere

424
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:38,230
so we hopped out of the canoes tied

425
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:41,340
ropes to them and started walking

426
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:44,890
upstream and pulling the canoes behind

427
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:50,710
us and eventually we just gave in to the

428
00:21:58,590 --> 00:21:53,890
fact that we weren't going to make it up

429
00:22:05,940 --> 00:21:58,600
to the allagash lake and it took us less

430
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:05,950
than 20 minutes going downstream to

431
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:10,240
cover what it had taken us about nine

432
00:22:22,770 --> 00:22:15,910
hours of of trudging up against the

433
00:22:29,420 --> 00:22:22,780
current and so at any rate the following

434
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:29,430
day we ended up making a portage over

435
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:36,570
onto Eagle Lake which is where our

436
00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:48,989
however two nights earlier on the lake

437
00:23:04,340 --> 00:22:53,049
champlain or champagne there at a

438
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:04,350
campsite called mud pond we had seen a

439
00:23:15,749 --> 00:23:12,129
strange light in the night sky and it to

440
00:23:19,139 --> 00:23:15,759
me because we had been paddling into

441
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:19,149
this strong headwind while trying to

442
00:23:27,049 --> 00:23:22,720
paddle up to the northern end of the

443
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:32,519
we had camped on the the sheltered side

444
00:23:43,859 --> 00:23:40,690
of the camping area and I thought this

445
00:23:48,629 --> 00:23:43,869
light was kind of strange it was moving

446
00:23:53,659 --> 00:23:48,639
at about the pace and speed that you

447
00:24:04,019 --> 00:23:58,049
the odd thing about it was it was moving

448
00:24:07,369 --> 00:24:04,029
into the wind it was on the opposite

449
00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:07,379
side of the lake from where we were and

450
00:24:20,129 --> 00:24:12,820
we saw it for a few moments and then it

451
00:24:26,220 --> 00:24:20,139
disappeared that evening however it you

452
00:24:33,389 --> 00:24:26,230
know made no significant impression on

453
00:24:41,009 --> 00:24:33,399
us as we had been on the lookout for two

454
00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:41,019
young boys who had been members of the

455
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:45,609
other party camping in this campsite

456
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:52,320
area that we two were camping at and

457
00:24:58,020 --> 00:24:54,250
shortly after sea

458
00:25:01,470 --> 00:24:58,030
this light we spotted where these two

459
00:25:04,470 --> 00:25:01,480
young guys were and so that was the end

460
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:04,480
of the excitement for that evening and

461
00:25:11,690 --> 00:25:07,690
we all turned in following day was when

462
00:25:15,780 --> 00:25:11,700
we tried to get up to allagash lake and

463
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:15,790
Charlie after that sorry to cut in here

464
00:25:19,770 --> 00:25:17,710
but we we're a little bit late for break

465
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:19,780
here so I'm just gonna leave it that oh

466
00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:22,330
I'm sorry yeah no problem I'm just gonna

467
00:25:28,140 --> 00:25:24,910
leave it that will when we come back

468
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:28,150
we'll be talking about you found the

469
00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:30,490
missing boys and that was it for the

470
00:25:36,420 --> 00:25:33,820
night and then so everyone hang in there

471
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:36,430
we'll be right back right after these

472
00:25:44,550 --> 00:25:42,010
messages and don't go away alright

473
00:25:46,770 --> 00:25:44,560
welcome back my guest this evening is

474
00:25:49,530 --> 00:25:46,780
Charlie faults and we're talking about

475
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:49,540
the allagash incident in Maine back I

476
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:52,530
think it was August 20th if I recall

477
00:26:00,300 --> 00:25:58,210
1976 26 26 76 yeah I was not that far up

478
00:26:02,220 --> 00:26:00,310
that's good so right before break we

479
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:02,230
were talking about the two missing boys

480
00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:06,970
and you kind of just you hung it up for

481
00:26:10,350 --> 00:26:08,680
the night and then you were about ready

482
00:26:14,850 --> 00:26:10,360
to start to talk about what happened the

483
00:26:19,890 --> 00:26:14,860
next day well right the following day

484
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:19,900
after we got our canoes loaded up we

485
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:22,210
tried going up to this primitive lake

486
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:36,600
more of a chore than it was in our time

487
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:42,450
schedule that we were trying to keep so

488
00:26:52,980 --> 00:26:45,130
after having tried all day to get up

489
00:26:58,800 --> 00:26:52,990
there without success we then moved on

490
00:27:06,810 --> 00:26:58,810
to the next location which was Eagle

491
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:06,820
Lake so you have to portage all roughly

492
00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:07,810
a half

493
00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:11,350
mile between the two lakes you have to

494
00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:15,070
carry your canoes and all your gear and

495
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:18,070
everything well since there were four of

496
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:24,510
us with two canoes we lashed poles

497
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:29,290
between the two canoes and then two guys

498
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:31,600
in the front two guys in the back we

499
00:27:36,810 --> 00:27:34,510
just lifted the canoes and took them

500
00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:36,820
from one point to the other and came

501
00:27:43,710 --> 00:27:39,100
back and repeated the process for the

502
00:27:48,620 --> 00:27:43,720
other canoe then got out on to Eagle

503
00:27:54,050 --> 00:27:48,630
Lake where we had wanted to stay at a

504
00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:54,060
site on Pillsbury Island called The Rose

505
00:28:01,880 --> 00:27:58,200
campsite where Henry David Thoreau had

506
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:01,890
stayed when he had canoed through that

507
00:28:15,150 --> 00:28:11,760
area there was a canoeist Oh perhaps a

508
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:15,160
third of a mile or so ahead of us on the

509
00:28:24,540 --> 00:28:20,760
lake and we were trying to beat him to

510
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:24,550
that campsite but with the lead he had

511
00:28:31,380 --> 00:28:27,610
he got there before us and we didn't

512
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:31,390
want to share any more campsite so we

513
00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:34,480
had a backup site at a place called

514
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:41,830
Smith brook campsite and that was on the

515
00:28:54,690 --> 00:28:49,570
evening that we had our encounter we set

516
00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:54,700
our camp up and put together a fire then

517
00:29:03,210 --> 00:28:58,930
got our fishing gear together just as it

518
00:29:07,470 --> 00:29:03,220
was getting dark we lit the fire which

519
00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:07,480
we estimated would burn for pretty close

520
00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:12,700
to three hours and started paddling

521
00:29:21,650 --> 00:29:17,350
across the lake toward the area where

522
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:21,660
the stream flows into

523
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:25,770
Smith Brook stream flows into Eagle Lake

524
00:29:32,910 --> 00:29:29,170
there were a lot of dead standing trees

525
00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:32,920
and fallen trees in that area so we

526
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:35,350
figured it would be good structure for

527
00:29:48,330 --> 00:29:39,690
fish and we wanted to add some fish

528
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:48,340
fresh fish to our diet well we had taken

529
00:30:03,540 --> 00:29:57,130
us all probably a good 25 minutes or so

530
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:03,550
to paddle you know some 400 yards from

531
00:30:10,740 --> 00:30:07,210
the campsite through all of these dead

532
00:30:12,450 --> 00:30:10,750
falls and you couldn't go in a straight

533
00:30:19,130 --> 00:30:12,460
line because there were too many

534
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:19,140
obstructions and once we got settled in

535
00:30:26,910 --> 00:30:23,110
it was fully dark and the only point of

536
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:26,920
reference for us for our campsite was

537
00:30:37,550 --> 00:30:32,880
the fire in the fire pit at the campsite

538
00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:37,560
and we'd only been there fishing for

539
00:30:44,370 --> 00:30:41,220
maybe about 10 minutes when we heard

540
00:30:48,210 --> 00:30:44,380
Chuck rack this other fellow it was on

541
00:30:57,390 --> 00:30:48,220
the trip with us and there was a like a

542
00:31:04,590 --> 00:30:57,400
tone of great concern in his voice you

543
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:04,600
know saying what the expert 'visit and

544
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:07,450
the first thing I saw was us ball a

545
00:31:13,890 --> 00:31:10,090
light that I thought well said it's a

546
00:31:17,660 --> 00:31:13,900
moon you idiot but no sooner had that

547
00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:17,670
thought entered and processed then I

548
00:31:26,190 --> 00:31:20,470
dismissed it as not being the moon at

549
00:31:30,260 --> 00:31:26,200
all because it was moving above the

550
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:30,270
treetops perhaps about 15 or 20 feet and

551
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:32,890
it was moving straight down the

552
00:31:51,299 --> 00:31:44,410
when it was all maybe less than 300 feet

553
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:51,309
from us out of curiosity I picked up a

554
00:32:00,669 --> 00:31:57,170
camp lantern the type that has a handle

555
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:00,679
with the push button I put my hand over

556
00:32:08,770 --> 00:32:04,730
the lamp turned the light on and then in

557
00:32:12,190 --> 00:32:08,780
semaphore fashion flashed three flashes

558
00:32:15,549 --> 00:32:12,200
short three long flashes and then three

559
00:32:24,299 --> 00:32:15,559
short flashes SOS just to see what this

560
00:32:30,220 --> 00:32:24,309
thing would do and it's basically an SOS

561
00:32:34,419 --> 00:32:30,230
and when I did that this thing stopped

562
00:32:39,850 --> 00:32:34,429
it was no longer continuing down the

563
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:39,860
shoreline but had completely stopped I

564
00:32:51,330 --> 00:32:44,330
stayed there for I don't know would

565
00:32:57,310 --> 00:32:51,340
maybe ten seconds or so and then this

566
00:33:04,900 --> 00:32:57,320
beam of light appeared from somewhere on

567
00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:04,910
the bottom and hit the foliage and the

568
00:33:12,820 --> 00:33:08,380
reeds and things right at the shoreline

569
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:12,830
and started coming across the water in

570
00:33:19,180 --> 00:33:16,210
our direction sort of like a spotlight

571
00:33:27,150 --> 00:33:19,190
the characteristics of this light were

572
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:27,160
very unusual in as much as they had the

573
00:33:36,460 --> 00:33:30,530
characteristics and qualities of a glass

574
00:33:45,549 --> 00:33:36,470
tube except that it was sort of like a

575
00:33:50,289 --> 00:33:45,559
neon blue in color the size of the light

576
00:33:58,029 --> 00:33:50,299
was large enough that it could

577
00:34:02,379 --> 00:33:58,039
take in a large SUV easily and as this

578
00:34:05,529 --> 00:34:02,389
thing was coming in our direction we

579
00:34:11,409 --> 00:34:05,539
then quickly realized that this sphere

580
00:34:15,879 --> 00:34:11,419
of light which was probably about the

581
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:15,889
size of a two-and-a-half story house was

582
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:18,530
coming in our direction also

583
00:34:26,409 --> 00:34:22,970
I dropped the flashlight and grabbed a

584
00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:26,419
canoe paddle and started canoeing as

585
00:34:31,059 --> 00:34:28,609
quickly as I could

586
00:34:35,379 --> 00:34:31,069
paddling out of both sides of the front

587
00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:35,389
of the canoe in a straight line toward

588
00:34:45,279 --> 00:34:41,990
the campfire my friends behind me the

589
00:34:47,649 --> 00:34:45,289
twins were using their hands and they

590
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:47,659
were paddling out of each side of the

591
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:52,639
canoe and urging me to paddle as quickly

592
00:35:01,839 --> 00:34:58,769
we didn't know what this thing was but

593
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:01,849
we weren't as curious about it anymore

594
00:35:16,289 --> 00:35:07,510
as we had been a few minutes earlier and

595
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:16,299
then what seemed like a moment later we

596
00:35:26,349 --> 00:35:21,650
were standing that is Chuck Rach was

597
00:35:33,279 --> 00:35:26,359
setting in the canoe but Jack Jim and

598
00:35:37,740 --> 00:35:33,289
myself were standing on the shore and I

599
00:35:45,730 --> 00:35:37,750
had this flashlight in my hand again and

600
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:45,740
this sphere was now it seemed like it

601
00:35:52,420 --> 00:35:48,170
was close enough you could throw a stone

602
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:52,430
or a baseball at it and hit it and it

603
00:36:00,400 --> 00:35:55,490
was about 40 feet above the surface of

604
00:36:02,890 --> 00:36:00,410
the water the night that this happened

605
00:36:09,790 --> 00:36:02,900
there was no moon in the sky

606
00:36:16,270 --> 00:36:09,800
but sky was so brilliant with the Milky

607
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:16,280
Way that the Milky Way you know why it's

608
00:36:26,980 --> 00:36:19,130
called that if you ever see it in the

609
00:36:32,430 --> 00:36:26,990
night sky a clear night sky is just vast

610
00:36:37,770 --> 00:36:32,440
and it had been reflecting in the

611
00:36:41,860 --> 00:36:37,780
surface of the water it was a calm still

612
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:41,870
night the only thing you could hear were

613
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:49,250
insects and occasional loon this sphere

614
00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:02,170
made no noise it created no disturbance

615
00:37:11,290 --> 00:37:06,070
on the surface of the water nor had it

616
00:37:16,750 --> 00:37:11,300
created any disturbance at the tops of

617
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:16,760
the trees that it illuminated as it

618
00:37:23,950 --> 00:37:20,090
moved down the shoreline the tops of the

619
00:37:32,350 --> 00:37:23,960
trees lit up from the ambient light that

620
00:37:35,380 --> 00:37:32,360
this sphere projected I took the

621
00:37:38,260 --> 00:37:35,390
flashlight and flashed at it again as I

622
00:37:41,650 --> 00:37:38,270
had while we were in the canoe because

623
00:37:45,370 --> 00:37:41,660
now we're a little braver because we're

624
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:45,380
on dry land and don't have the fear of

625
00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:50,570
drowning in the back of our minds and

626
00:38:01,000 --> 00:37:52,700
you can always run through the woods

627
00:38:03,750 --> 00:38:01,010
right so the sphere began moving but

628
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:03,760
this time it was moving away from us

629
00:38:12,430 --> 00:38:08,240
toward the opposite shoreline where we

630
00:38:15,890 --> 00:38:12,440
had it first encountered it when it got

631
00:38:18,410 --> 00:38:15,900
to the opposite side of the lake it

632
00:38:25,849 --> 00:38:18,420
ended up and away at a 45-degree angle

633
00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:25,859
from us and for some reason I felt that

634
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:30,900
it was about to go fast so I took the

635
00:38:37,279 --> 00:38:33,599
flashlight and looked at the sweep hand

636
00:38:42,260 --> 00:38:37,289
of my watch and then looked back at this

637
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:42,270
sphere to see it literally accelerate so

638
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:46,490
quickly that in less than eight seconds

639
00:38:56,779 --> 00:38:52,609
it had disappeared into the night sky I

640
00:39:03,019 --> 00:38:56,789
noted the time on my watch was after

641
00:39:06,490 --> 00:39:03,029
10:00 and evening and that this thing

642
00:39:12,799 --> 00:39:06,500
had made no noise whatsoever

643
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:12,809
well but that time Chuck had joined Jack

644
00:39:20,750 --> 00:39:17,490
and Gemini on the shore and we all

645
00:39:25,870 --> 00:39:20,760
turned and walked back up to the

646
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:25,880
campsite each campsite is an open area

647
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:31,440
clearing in the in the main forest it

648
00:39:42,859 --> 00:39:36,960
has a large fire pit specifically set up

649
00:39:48,799 --> 00:39:42,869
by the Park Service as well as picnic

650
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:48,809
tables and poles for drying wet clothing

651
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:55,980
and it also has the features of a toilet

652
00:40:03,490 --> 00:39:58,490
at each campsite

653
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:03,500
well we walked up and just all dropped

654
00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:09,119
down at the picnic tables and I was

655
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:11,609
about to set down when I looked over at

656
00:40:19,609 --> 00:40:15,930
the fire and noticed that it had burned

657
00:40:25,339 --> 00:40:19,619
out there were nothing but coals and

658
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,349
little wisps of flame remaining of it so

659
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:27,599
I started with a stick and asked

660
00:40:33,010 --> 00:40:29,910
everybody if I should

661
00:40:36,109 --> 00:40:33,020
throw some more wood on the fire and

662
00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:36,119
everybody's response was forget the fire

663
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:37,710
I'm turning in

664
00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:41,250
and with that each one of us then did

665
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:45,960
turn in for the evening we didn't sit

666
00:40:55,490 --> 00:40:49,650
around and talk about you know what this

667
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:55,500
thing was or anything more about it

668
00:41:01,819 --> 00:40:58,170
hope we didn't talk about having just

669
00:41:07,069 --> 00:41:01,829
escaped from it you know in fear of her

670
00:41:11,630 --> 00:41:07,079
lives in retrospect that was all kind of

671
00:41:14,510 --> 00:41:11,640
odd because all we could talk about in

672
00:41:18,490 --> 00:41:14,520
the morning was this thing that had

673
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:21,799
we broke camp that morning that was the

674
00:41:32,359 --> 00:41:25,650
only topic of discussion and as we

675
00:41:36,890 --> 00:41:32,369
paddled up Eagle Lake toward our next

676
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:36,900
campsite we saw a ranger and we called

677
00:41:46,279 --> 00:41:41,250
the Ranger over and we told them that we

678
00:41:49,309 --> 00:41:46,289
had seen a UFO this huge spear this ball

679
00:41:53,390 --> 00:41:49,319
of light as big as a house and that had

680
00:41:56,930 --> 00:41:53,400
had chased us and that we had got away

681
00:42:00,289 --> 00:41:56,940
from it well he gave us an incredibly

682
00:42:04,370 --> 00:42:00,299
hard look and sort of cocked his head

683
00:42:10,329 --> 00:42:04,380
and looked up at us and said in a heavy

684
00:42:14,450 --> 00:42:10,339
Maine accent that well what you boy saw

685
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:14,460
them hollywood-style searchlights and

686
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:17,010
they opened up a brand new hardware

687
00:42:22,130 --> 00:42:20,160
store Millinocket in and had him out

688
00:42:28,849 --> 00:42:22,140
front and that's probably what you boys

689
00:42:32,829 --> 00:42:28,859
saw do that was like Millinocket thank

690
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:32,839
you me an accent well no one knock it

691
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:36,720
Millinocket was about 90 miles south of

692
00:42:43,370 --> 00:42:40,710
where we were and Mount Katahdin which

693
00:42:46,670 --> 00:42:43,380
we had climbed

694
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:46,680
days earlier is like I say one mile high

695
00:42:56,089 --> 00:42:51,359
and in a direct line of sight from our

696
00:42:58,880 --> 00:42:56,099
campsite since there were no clouds it

697
00:43:03,170 --> 00:42:58,890
could bounce or mirrors that could

698
00:43:07,759 --> 00:43:03,180
bounce light around we didn't push it

699
00:43:13,279 --> 00:43:07,769
further with that Ranger and as we

700
00:43:19,930 --> 00:43:13,289
progressed on our trip we kept informing

701
00:43:25,390 --> 00:43:19,940
Rangers and the more Rangers we saw the

702
00:43:28,220 --> 00:43:25,400
strangers the Rangers treated us hmm

703
00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:28,230
because they were pretty much looking

704
00:43:40,579 --> 00:43:30,569
out for us by the time we got to the end

705
00:43:47,779 --> 00:43:40,589
of the trip so that being said after 17

706
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:47,789
days canoeing the lakes shooting the

707
00:44:04,870 --> 00:43:55,650
rapids bypassing waterfalls we finished

708
00:44:10,789 --> 00:44:04,880
our canoe trip in Fort Kent which is the

709
00:44:18,140 --> 00:44:10,799
beginning and/or end of US Route 1 which

710
00:44:22,460 --> 00:44:18,150
was the first intercostal State or

711
00:44:27,859 --> 00:44:22,470
interstate road I believe in the US

712
00:44:38,509 --> 00:44:27,869
which it ran from Fort Kent all the way

713
00:44:41,630 --> 00:44:38,519
down to Key West in Florida but we ended

714
00:44:47,059 --> 00:44:41,640
up driving back to Boston and within a

715
00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:47,069
year we had shared our you know UFO

716
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:50,960
encounters story about camping in the

717
00:44:59,570 --> 00:44:54,450
forests of Maine and being chased by a

718
00:45:08,490 --> 00:45:06,300
you know got a lot of laughs from some

719
00:45:14,340 --> 00:45:08,500
of our girlfriends and some of our other

720
00:45:18,660 --> 00:45:14,350
friends and you know after a year we

721
00:45:22,890 --> 00:45:18,670
moved on with you know life I was

722
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:22,900
finishing college you know each of us

723
00:45:34,890 --> 00:45:24,610
were going off in different directions

724
00:45:39,690 --> 00:45:34,900
and about a dozen years later Jim Weiner

725
00:45:44,010 --> 00:45:39,700
was being treated for an epileptic

726
00:45:49,380 --> 00:45:44,020
disorder which resulted from an accident

727
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:49,390
he sustained again in Maine about two

728
00:45:57,810 --> 00:45:53,890
years after our canoe trip on the

729
00:46:01,950 --> 00:45:57,820
allagash he was helping a friend who

730
00:46:05,460 --> 00:46:01,960
lives up in Perry Maine but at that time

731
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:05,470
he was looking to buy a piece of

732
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:11,160
property in Calais these are areas in

733
00:46:18,930 --> 00:46:15,850
far northern Maine and for those of you

734
00:46:26,430 --> 00:46:18,940
that are not familiar familiar with

735
00:46:34,020 --> 00:46:26,440
Maine it's a very large state and is

736
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:34,030
still covered from the ocean to the

737
00:46:45,860 --> 00:46:39,570
Canadian border in forests all over and

738
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:45,870
it's also an area where a lot of farmers

739
00:47:00,800 --> 00:46:55,930
grow crops and so moving before I

740
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:00,810
digress moving on forward with our lives

741
00:47:09,330 --> 00:47:07,570
Jim was being treated for epileptic

742
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:09,340
seizures

743
00:47:17,190 --> 00:47:13,210
and at that time he had moved back into

744
00:47:23,490 --> 00:47:17,200
Boston where I was still living after I

745
00:47:27,260 --> 00:47:23,500
had graduated from college I worked as a

746
00:47:32,330 --> 00:47:27,270
medical artist and a clinical medical

747
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:32,340
photographer in a teaching hospital and

748
00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:35,890
worked with you know Harvard Medical

749
00:47:49,850 --> 00:47:39,000
School Tufts and bu schools of medicine

750
00:47:56,090 --> 00:47:49,860
and Jim had gone on to become a ceramics

751
00:48:01,100 --> 00:47:56,100
instructor and teacher he had taught in

752
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:01,110
New Hampshire for a number of years and

753
00:48:09,180 --> 00:48:06,250
was at the time teaching at the Museum

754
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:09,190
of Fine Arts in Boston where he taught

755
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:17,440
ceramics as well and Jack his identical

756
00:48:31,020 --> 00:48:24,570
twin had married and lived in rural

757
00:48:35,150 --> 00:48:31,030
southern Vermont and at the time Jim was

758
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:35,160
being treated for epilepsy both he and

759
00:48:46,170 --> 00:48:42,640
Jack were having nightmares and the

760
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:46,180
nightmares for them were quite

761
00:49:00,780 --> 00:48:54,400
terrifying in so much as they in were

762
00:49:07,470 --> 00:49:00,790
encountering creatures that they had no

763
00:49:11,940 --> 00:49:07,480
description or you know way of

764
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:11,950
expressing you know they're alarmed by

765
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:15,310
these dreams but they were not talking

766
00:49:22,540 --> 00:49:17,740
they were not communicating with one

767
00:49:26,170 --> 00:49:22,550
another about their dreams

768
00:49:28,780 --> 00:49:26,180
Jack who was married was sharing these

769
00:49:31,090 --> 00:49:28,790
nightmares with his wife because he

770
00:49:34,420 --> 00:49:31,100
would wake up in the middle of the night

771
00:49:38,590 --> 00:49:34,430
scaring her half to death

772
00:49:40,990 --> 00:49:38,600
Jim however as I said had moved back to

773
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:41,000
Boston from teaching in New Hampshire

774
00:49:51,070 --> 00:49:46,610
and I was living in a large house in the

775
00:49:55,540 --> 00:49:51,080
town of Brookline and he moved in as one

776
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:55,550
of my housemates and in the middle of

777
00:50:02,170 --> 00:49:58,210
the summer when it was the hottest he

778
00:50:04,090 --> 00:50:02,180
began bolting his windows closed we

779
00:50:10,530 --> 00:50:04,100
didn't have air conditioning or anything

780
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:10,540
and this four-bedroom apartment was on

781
00:50:19,380 --> 00:50:15,680
the top floor of his huge stucco house

782
00:50:24,730 --> 00:50:19,390
that had been built in the early 1920s

783
00:50:29,830 --> 00:50:24,740
it had a terracotta tile roof one of

784
00:50:33,460 --> 00:50:29,840
those like Spanish style curved red tile

785
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:33,470
roofs and when they got hot in the

786
00:50:42,930 --> 00:50:36,170
summertime they radiate heat all night

787
00:50:50,050 --> 00:50:42,940
long yeah and yeah and Jim was also

788
00:50:54,130 --> 00:50:50,060
aside from bolting his windows closed he

789
00:50:59,110 --> 00:50:54,140
was putting padlocks on the inside of

790
00:51:03,990 --> 00:50:59,120
his bedroom door I don't know if I ever

791
00:51:10,570 --> 00:51:04,000
heard that oh and oh yeah and he was not

792
00:51:15,460 --> 00:51:10,580
sharing with the rest of his housemates

793
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:15,470
his bizarre behavior well we did find it

794
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:17,210
amusing in the morning while we were

795
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:19,970
having a cup of coffee with he forgot to

796
00:51:27,330 --> 00:51:23,510
unbolt the door and walk straight into

797
00:51:30,990 --> 00:51:27,340
it on his way to the bathroom so but

798
00:51:36,340 --> 00:51:31,000
aside from the levity we had with that

799
00:51:39,220 --> 00:51:36,350
you know we were you know clueless

800
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:39,230
as to why he was joining us I'm sorry

801
00:51:44,350 --> 00:51:40,610
but I'm gonna have to jump in for a

802
00:51:46,810 --> 00:51:44,360
break here it's our last break so we're

803
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:46,820
okay all right so we're gonna talk about

804
00:51:49,150 --> 00:51:48,050
we're not going to talk about them

805
00:51:51,340 --> 00:51:49,160
running into the door but we're gonna

806
00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:51,350
talk about em locking the door when we

807
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:51,950
come back

808
00:51:57,790 --> 00:51:55,040
my guest is Charlie faults and this is

809
00:51:59,590 --> 00:51:57,800
Martin Willis with podcast UFO and hang

810
00:52:03,880 --> 00:51:59,600
in there we'll be right back right after

811
00:52:07,140 --> 00:52:03,890
these commercials commercial breaks all

812
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:07,150
right we are back and I'm with my guest

813
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:10,490
Charles Charlie faults and we are

814
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:12,770
talking about the allagash incident or

815
00:52:17,980 --> 00:52:16,400
allagash abduction incident and it's a

816
00:52:21,250 --> 00:52:17,990
fascinating one we're getting into the

817
00:52:23,170 --> 00:52:21,260
real real good stuff now you were

818
00:52:24,910 --> 00:52:23,180
talking about him banging his head on

819
00:52:31,390 --> 00:52:24,920
the locked door and that's where we left

820
00:52:36,610 --> 00:52:31,400
off so oh right well you know but what

821
00:52:41,260 --> 00:52:36,620
he was you know the reasoning behind his

822
00:52:44,170 --> 00:52:41,270
behavior was in parallel with his

823
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:44,180
brother his identical twin brother

824
00:52:52,750 --> 00:52:48,350
living in Vermont they were both having

825
00:52:58,900 --> 00:52:52,760
nightmare experiences of a UFO abduction

826
00:53:05,080 --> 00:52:58,910
and both dreams that nightmares that

827
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:05,090
they were having in cluded this other

828
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:09,050
guy named Chuck and myself and the only

829
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:11,870
time the four of us had ever done

830
00:53:26,770 --> 00:53:17,450
anything at all together before then or

831
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:26,780
since then was that trip Jim who as I

832
00:53:34,780 --> 00:53:29,330
said was being treated for epileptic

833
00:53:38,020 --> 00:53:34,790
disorders was going through an

834
00:53:42,060 --> 00:53:38,030
examination called

835
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:42,070
sleep deprivation where they keep you

836
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:46,450
awake for an extended period of time and

837
00:53:56,410 --> 00:53:50,890
you have a bunch of electro

838
00:53:59,830 --> 00:53:56,420
literally glued to your scalp you know

839
00:54:06,300 --> 00:53:59,840
maybe upward to a hundred tiny little

840
00:54:07,710 --> 00:54:06,310
wires you look like some science fiction

841
00:54:11,770 --> 00:54:07,720
[Music]

842
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:11,780
mad scientist's escapee or victim or

843
00:54:22,650 --> 00:54:16,160
something but when a person has a

844
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:22,660
seizure then these sensors pick up the

845
00:54:34,750 --> 00:54:28,450
electric storm as its referred to of

846
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:34,760
activity as these pulses of energy speed

847
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:38,930
across the surface of your brain from

848
00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:45,609
one hemisphere to the other Jim was

849
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:52,609
asked about his nightmares and he said

850
00:54:58,300 --> 00:54:54,770
he didn't really want to describe them

851
00:55:02,800 --> 00:54:58,310
he didn't want to talk about them so

852
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:02,810
they asked him to you know set in the

853
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:05,570
waiting area and asked him if he wanted

854
00:55:13,980 --> 00:55:08,510
any reading material he said yeah that'd

855
00:55:19,420 --> 00:55:13,990
be a great idea and they came in with

856
00:55:24,970 --> 00:55:19,430
some books and among them was writ least

857
00:55:30,670 --> 00:55:24,980
reapers communion and when Jim saw the

858
00:55:35,020 --> 00:55:30,680
cover of that he you know he just you

859
00:55:37,240 --> 00:55:35,030
know kind of lost it and they came in

860
00:55:40,359 --> 00:55:37,250
and they told him you know to calm down

861
00:55:42,250 --> 00:55:40,369
and he was wanting to know why they were

862
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:42,260
doing this and everything and they were

863
00:55:47,980 --> 00:55:43,970
wanting to know what he was talking

864
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:47,990
about and he again said well I don't

865
00:55:51,130 --> 00:55:49,520
really want to talk about it and that

866
00:55:53,710 --> 00:55:51,140
was when they said well look if you

867
00:55:58,089 --> 00:55:53,720
don't talk about it we're gonna have to

868
00:56:00,730 --> 00:55:58,099
cut you from this study and and you know

869
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:00,740
then you're gonna be stuck with your

870
00:56:08,300 --> 00:56:02,880
condition

871
00:56:14,690 --> 00:56:08,310
so he finally agreed to relax and he

872
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:14,700
shared his nightmares and as it turned

873
00:56:29,590 --> 00:56:21,770
out his clinician had been having dinner

874
00:56:34,990 --> 00:56:29,600
the night before with a Harvard medical

875
00:56:40,190 --> 00:56:35,000
professor by the name of John Mack and

876
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:40,200
for many people that are familiar with

877
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:46,050
John Mack and his contribution to the

878
00:56:55,340 --> 00:56:50,240
exploration as to the explanation and

879
00:56:58,100 --> 00:56:55,350
investigation of UFO phenomenon and UFO

880
00:57:04,450 --> 00:56:58,110
abduction phenomenon

881
00:57:12,220 --> 00:57:04,460
John is is really well known he's like

882
00:57:16,810 --> 00:57:12,230
easy to find and look up in any

883
00:57:31,940 --> 00:57:26,000
however Jim was encouraged to contact

884
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:31,950
John Mack and he was also as just a

885
00:57:43,090 --> 00:57:35,970
coincidence directed toward a fella by

886
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:43,100
the name of Ray Fowler and Ray Fowler

887
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:49,010
was an investigator he was ahead of

888
00:57:58,670 --> 00:57:53,610
MUFON in Massachusetts at the time that

889
00:58:02,360 --> 00:57:58,680
we contacted him her actually Jim met

890
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:02,370
him at a conference and a lecture he was

891
00:58:14,570 --> 00:58:09,090
giving and approached him after this

892
00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:14,580
lecture and shared

893
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:21,470
his experience on the Allagash Rey

894
00:58:35,630 --> 00:58:30,810
handed Jim for UFO contact reports

895
00:58:43,690 --> 00:58:35,640
sheets to have each one of us fill out

896
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:43,700
and mail back to ray and each one of us

897
00:58:55,610 --> 00:58:48,210
independently filled out our report

898
00:59:00,530 --> 00:58:55,620
sheets and several of us included little

899
00:59:04,610 --> 00:59:00,540
sketches of our experience and put down

900
00:59:14,450 --> 00:59:04,620
the names of the strangers that we had

901
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:14,460
reported seeing this UFO - well when ray

902
00:59:26,510 --> 00:59:18,090
got all the material he looked into it

903
00:59:31,340 --> 00:59:26,520
and once he looked into it he began an

904
00:59:36,530 --> 00:59:31,350
extensive investigation which lasted in

905
00:59:42,370 --> 00:59:36,540
excess of four years you I I heard

906
00:59:47,210 --> 00:59:42,380
talking on the news were talking about

907
00:59:47,810 --> 00:59:47,220
the television program UFO project

908
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:47,820
Bluebook

909
00:59:57,500 --> 00:59:52,770
and at the end of each one of those

910
01:00:02,080 --> 00:59:57,510
programs they would you know talk about

911
01:00:07,460 --> 01:00:02,090
an actual case that Hynek had

912
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:07,470
investigated and Ray Fowler worked with

913
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:13,200
Allen Hynek investigating some of these

914
01:00:25,150 --> 01:00:19,530
UFO reports which is one of the things

915
01:00:30,780 --> 01:00:25,160
that led ray into investigating and

916
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:34,800
at first I was convinced the only thing

917
01:00:43,710 --> 01:00:39,130
that has ever happened was we had seen a

918
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:43,720
UFO I had shined a flashlight at it it

919
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:48,160
had responded we had paddled away

920
01:00:56,570 --> 01:00:52,090
I had shined a flashlight at it a second

921
01:00:59,370 --> 01:00:56,580
time and it flew away into the night sky

922
01:01:02,160 --> 01:00:59,380
for some reason I knew it was going to

923
01:01:06,660 --> 01:01:02,170
go fast I looked at my watch looked at

924
01:01:09,450 --> 01:01:06,670
it it flew fast and that was kind of a

925
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:09,460
weird thing but you know that's all

926
01:01:16,020 --> 01:01:11,010
happened

927
01:01:21,830 --> 01:01:16,030
well then came in the play of the

928
01:01:26,970 --> 01:01:21,840
campfire burning down a three hour fire

929
01:01:30,690 --> 01:01:26,980
which we had only been away from for

930
01:01:33,599 --> 01:01:30,700
less than 30 minutes before I started

931
01:01:38,730 --> 01:01:33,609
paddling back toward it and I was

932
01:01:44,300 --> 01:01:38,740
looking at a fire with flames that I

933
01:01:48,450 --> 01:01:44,310
could see four hundred yards away and

934
01:01:52,260 --> 01:01:48,460
yet by the time we crossed that four

935
01:02:00,450 --> 01:01:52,270
hundred yards that fire had completely

936
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:00,460
burnt ashes we didn't think anything of

937
01:02:05,250 --> 01:02:03,010
it that night because we were exhausted

938
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:05,260
or so we thought we were just totally

939
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:10,930
exhausted from having paddled so hard we

940
01:02:18,359 --> 01:02:15,730
didn't think what the hell happened to

941
01:02:22,740 --> 01:02:18,369
the fire you know I noticed that it was

942
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:22,750
nearly burned out but I mean hey you

943
01:02:31,950 --> 01:02:27,130
ever see a fire be a perpetual fire not

944
01:02:38,070 --> 01:02:31,960
using wood unless you perpetually feed

945
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:38,080
it it will burn out so a lot of these

946
01:02:51,730 --> 01:02:46,800
you know picked up on and began

947
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:51,740
investigating he had contacted the air

948
01:02:59,550 --> 01:02:54,970
force base and northern Maine and

949
01:03:07,350 --> 01:02:59,560
apparently they had some type of

950
01:03:12,670 --> 01:03:07,360
sighting in the night sky that evening

951
01:03:17,710 --> 01:03:12,680
ray checked the Bureau of weather where

952
01:03:20,830 --> 01:03:17,720
they record what the weather is in North

953
01:03:27,070 --> 01:03:20,840
America for every area in part of North

954
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:27,080
America every day of every week month

955
01:03:43,890 --> 01:03:36,410
and year for you know perpetuity he you

956
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:47,790
contacted the Rangers that we had named

957
01:03:56,430 --> 01:03:52,010
one of the Rangers his name was ever a

958
01:04:03,910 --> 01:03:56,440
crown and

959
01:04:09,940 --> 01:04:03,920
Ray contacted him telling mr. kramm that

960
01:04:12,790 --> 01:04:09,950
he was writing a story about our book

961
01:04:20,830 --> 01:04:12,800
about Maine and was collecting stories

962
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:20,840
of you know the unusual and things of

963
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:25,250
interest that some of the Rangers

964
01:04:33,970 --> 01:04:30,170
encountered from the campers and the

965
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:33,980
public that they encountered and the

966
01:04:41,530 --> 01:04:39,890
first story that Everett kram says the

967
01:04:49,060 --> 01:04:41,540
first thing comes out of his mouth

968
01:04:52,510 --> 01:04:49,070
is his story about two identical twins

969
01:04:54,460 --> 01:04:52,520
and two other guys claiming they saw a

970
01:04:58,359 --> 01:04:54,470
UFO

971
01:05:01,660 --> 01:04:58,369
and apparently Everett tram thought we

972
01:05:07,450 --> 01:05:01,670
were all crazy and Whittle left it at

973
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:07,460
that but a couple of years after we had

974
01:05:12,190 --> 01:05:10,490
gone through that area he had seen

975
01:05:17,140 --> 01:05:12,200
something strange

976
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:17,150
along those lines himself and quit being

977
01:05:31,930 --> 01:05:25,210
a ranger on the allagash and was a tour

978
01:05:37,210 --> 01:05:31,940
rafter on the Penobscot River during the

979
01:05:46,030 --> 01:05:37,220
rapids on some of the rivers up in

980
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:46,040
northern Maine and as Ray amassed all

981
01:05:51,690 --> 01:05:47,450
this information

982
01:05:55,810 --> 01:05:51,700
he brought each one of us in

983
01:06:02,010 --> 01:05:55,820
individually to be hypnotically

984
01:06:07,329 --> 01:06:02,020
regressed after each person was

985
01:06:12,010 --> 01:06:07,339
regressed in my case where I had only

986
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:12,020
fun I had just witnessed a fear of light

987
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:15,170
that I shined a flashlight at that had

988
01:06:21,550 --> 01:06:17,770
chased us across the lake and then

989
01:06:25,650 --> 01:06:21,560
disappeared was the whole extent of my

990
01:06:29,020 --> 01:06:25,660
experience and then after I went through

991
01:06:32,890 --> 01:06:29,030
you know about three hours of hypnotic

992
01:06:41,260 --> 01:06:32,900
regression which I thought were no more

993
01:06:45,430 --> 01:06:41,270
than 20 minutes I I was stunned at the

994
01:06:48,010 --> 01:06:45,440
revelation that I realized there was an

995
01:06:51,150 --> 01:06:48,020
explanation as to why the fire burned

996
01:06:56,260 --> 01:06:51,160
out there was an explanation as to why

997
01:07:00,640 --> 01:06:56,270
we were standing on the shore and not

998
01:07:05,700 --> 01:07:00,650
setting in the canoe and there was an

999
01:07:08,140 --> 01:07:05,710
explanation as to why I knew this fear

1000
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:08,150
was going to accelerate

1001
01:07:23,470 --> 01:07:18,890
a high rate of speed we I myself was was

1002
01:07:27,190 --> 01:07:23,480
in disbelief that I had had an abduction

1003
01:07:35,549 --> 01:07:27,200
experience what I remembered under

1004
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:35,559
regression was opening my eyes up and

1005
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:40,970
looking at my toes and thinking that's

1006
01:07:48,279 --> 01:07:41,890
odd

1007
01:07:53,049 --> 01:07:48,289
where are my socks and then noticing

1008
01:07:58,799 --> 01:07:53,059
that I didn't have pants or any other

1009
01:08:02,049 --> 01:07:58,809
clothing on I then started pondering

1010
01:08:05,559 --> 01:08:02,059
what happened to my clothing and then

1011
01:08:09,339 --> 01:08:05,569
the rapid thinker that I was I all of a

1012
01:08:18,010 --> 01:08:09,349
sudden realized I wasn't in the canoe

1013
01:08:21,820 --> 01:08:18,020
anymore and I was trying to get up off

1014
01:08:29,620 --> 01:08:21,830
of my back as I found myself lying flat

1015
01:08:33,220 --> 01:08:29,630
I could see Jack Jim and Chuck who were

1016
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:33,230
all nude and they were seated on like a

1017
01:08:42,459 --> 01:08:40,250
bench that jutted out from this wall and

1018
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:42,469
they looked like they were sitting there

1019
01:08:48,430 --> 01:08:44,890
waiting for a bus or something and

1020
01:08:53,620 --> 01:08:48,440
although I was not able to audibly

1021
01:08:57,999 --> 01:08:53,630
scream in my mind though that's all I

1022
01:09:00,939 --> 01:08:58,009
was doing I was yelling get up you you

1023
01:09:05,410 --> 01:09:00,949
get up help me get me out of here you

1024
01:09:07,749 --> 01:09:05,420
know I just couldn't move and I was

1025
01:09:12,630 --> 01:09:07,759
getting more agitated and then all of a

1026
01:09:20,379 --> 01:09:12,640
sudden from the top of my head from

1027
01:09:21,970 --> 01:09:20,389
coming into my vision this face bends

1028
01:09:29,620 --> 01:09:21,980
down and stare

1029
01:09:39,519 --> 01:09:29,630
and it's got gigantic eyes and they're

1030
01:09:45,430 --> 01:09:39,529
black as night and this voice says relax

1031
01:09:49,180 --> 01:09:45,440
you will not be harmed comply and you

1032
01:09:51,820 --> 01:09:49,190
will be okay try just one second was

1033
01:09:57,190 --> 01:09:51,830
that something you heard or was that

1034
01:10:04,020 --> 01:09:57,200
like in your mind that was I guess I

1035
01:10:09,220 --> 01:10:04,030
both I heard but since I wasn't able to

1036
01:10:15,700 --> 01:10:09,230
audibly speak to myself all this

1037
01:10:20,729 --> 01:10:15,710
communication was like telepathic when

1038
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:20,739
this thing looked into my eyes initially

1039
01:10:28,660 --> 01:10:25,520
I I pulled my head back as quickly as I

1040
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:28,670
could which was probably only an inch

1041
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:30,650
and a half above the table to the

1042
01:10:40,270 --> 01:10:34,850
contact surface if you've ever been in

1043
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:40,280
an elevator that well a better example

1044
01:10:46,030 --> 01:10:43,610
would be on a roller coaster and the

1045
01:10:49,060 --> 01:10:46,040
roller coaster goes from a steep hill

1046
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:49,070
and do a steep dive going down into a

1047
01:10:57,430 --> 01:10:52,640
dip and you feel your stomach sort of

1048
01:11:00,520 --> 01:10:57,440
like come up into your chest when this

1049
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:00,530
thing made eye contact with me it was

1050
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:07,970
like my my Inner Sphere self the your

1051
01:11:17,070 --> 01:11:11,090
own private thoughts between your ears

1052
01:11:22,990 --> 01:11:17,080
world was all the sudden pulled right up

1053
01:11:31,870 --> 01:11:23,000
to being in contact and communication

1054
01:11:36,870 --> 01:11:31,880
and like with this thing and so when I

1055
01:11:46,470 --> 01:11:36,880
was instructed or told

1056
01:11:52,810 --> 01:11:46,480
not to fight but to go with the flow I

1057
01:12:03,490 --> 01:11:52,820
you know I felt at ease you know and I

1058
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:03,500
did comply so after experiencing that

1059
01:12:19,839 --> 01:12:13,360
and an invasive and intrusive physical

1060
01:12:23,530 --> 01:12:19,849
examination as well I I felt about as

1061
01:12:29,020 --> 01:12:23,540
helpless as an infant you know I was

1062
01:12:33,129 --> 01:12:29,030
totally incapable and unable to to do

1063
01:12:36,879 --> 01:12:33,139
anything to protect myself and at that

1064
01:12:40,270 --> 01:12:36,889
time in my life as I said I was in my

1065
01:12:43,810 --> 01:12:40,280
20s and I was in good shape I was a

1066
01:12:46,510 --> 01:12:43,820
practicing martial artist and I

1067
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:46,520
practiced two hours every day except for

1068
01:12:56,020 --> 01:12:49,730
the weekends and I would work out about

1069
01:13:01,330 --> 01:12:56,030
16 hours in the weekends and was you

1070
01:13:06,700 --> 01:13:01,340
know I I practiced against multiple

1071
01:13:09,990 --> 01:13:06,710
assailants at the same time and I would

1072
01:13:15,609 --> 01:13:10,000
you know eventually became an assistant

1073
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:15,619
instructor in a martial arts school and

1074
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:21,530
I enjoyed it I was good at but I I had

1075
01:13:34,689 --> 01:13:24,170
about as much ability to protect myself

1076
01:13:40,209 --> 01:13:34,699
as two-day-old baby well after all this

1077
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:40,219
enlightenment and these new picture

1078
01:13:53,860 --> 01:13:49,120
files I sat in in amazement and

1079
01:13:59,169 --> 01:13:53,870
was asked by the hypnotherapist and Rey

1080
01:14:02,590 --> 01:13:59,179
or how long I had thought I had been

1081
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:02,600
under hypnosis and now what I thought

1082
01:14:09,390 --> 01:14:07,010
and you know I informed them that that I

1083
01:14:16,180 --> 01:14:09,400
had a lot to think about

1084
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:16,190
and I was then asked to go home make a

1085
01:14:28,990 --> 01:14:22,570
bunch of drawings and to not under any

1086
01:14:34,090 --> 01:14:29,000
circumstances discuss what my hypnotic

1087
01:14:39,820 --> 01:14:34,100
regression experience was with anybody

1088
01:14:46,419 --> 01:14:39,830
with either twin or you know strangers

1089
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:46,429
for that matter and so I did not and the

1090
01:14:55,959 --> 01:14:52,850
twins had agreed in the same fashion to

1091
01:15:00,220 --> 01:14:55,969
Ray that they would not discuss anything

1092
01:15:00,970 --> 01:15:00,230
and they did illustrations as did Chuck

1093
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:00,980
Rach

1094
01:15:14,020 --> 01:15:06,410
and after the last person had been

1095
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:14,030
regressed Ray Fowler brought all four of

1096
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:17,449
us together for the first time as a

1097
01:15:24,100 --> 01:15:21,650
collective group and had all of our

1098
01:15:27,910 --> 01:15:24,110
artwork the artwork I had done the

1099
01:15:32,050 --> 01:15:27,920
artwork that Jack and Jim had done the

1100
01:15:39,459 --> 01:15:32,060
artwork that Chuck had done and all of

1101
01:15:45,300 --> 01:15:39,469
it had you know told this story about

1102
01:15:51,939 --> 01:15:45,310
our experience onboard this this UFO

1103
01:15:57,250 --> 01:15:51,949
that we had indeed that evening been

1104
01:16:02,080 --> 01:15:57,260
abducted by and you know it was 12 years

1105
01:16:03,490 --> 01:16:02,090
before we were even aware that there had

1106
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:03,500
been a knock

1107
01:16:14,170 --> 01:16:11,570
and it took quite a while for us before

1108
01:16:17,410 --> 01:16:14,180
the book was ever published it took

1109
01:16:23,230 --> 01:16:17,420
quite a while for each and every one of

1110
01:16:28,060 --> 01:16:23,240
us to to deal with with just the thought

1111
01:16:33,940 --> 01:16:28,070
that something like this was possible

1112
01:16:39,070 --> 01:16:33,950
that not only was it possible but that

1113
01:16:46,770 --> 01:16:39,080
it actually had happened it was you know

1114
01:16:50,010 --> 01:16:46,780
it shakes the very core of your world I

1115
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:50,020
have a friend of mine who is an

1116
01:16:58,290 --> 01:16:55,130
astrophysicist at Harvard University who

1117
01:17:03,580 --> 01:16:58,300
told me that in the Milky Way galaxy

1118
01:17:11,830 --> 01:17:03,590
that's the neighborhood we live in which

1119
01:17:15,820 --> 01:17:11,840
is over five billion years in age that

1120
01:17:20,530 --> 01:17:15,830
there are more stars just in our single

1121
01:17:25,510 --> 01:17:20,540
galaxy then there are grains of sand on

1122
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:25,520
our entire planet Earth now I don't know

1123
01:17:37,300 --> 01:17:32,530
about you but I just cannot conceive of

1124
01:17:40,870 --> 01:17:37,310
a number that big when you stop and

1125
01:17:46,650 --> 01:17:40,880
think of just the Sahara Desert alone

1126
01:17:49,420 --> 01:17:46,660
that's just one desert yeah every every

1127
01:17:56,700 --> 01:17:49,430
every continent with the exception of

1128
01:18:00,700 --> 01:17:56,710
Antarctica has a sandy desert in it and

1129
01:18:03,480 --> 01:18:00,710
you know I mean just how many spa how

1130
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:03,490
many grains of sand would be in a

1131
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:09,410
five-gallon bucket I know I mean more

1132
01:18:14,350 --> 01:18:12,050
than I would want to be assigned to

1133
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:14,360
count in my lifetime that's for damn

1134
01:18:18,089 --> 01:18:14,690
sure

1135
01:18:27,759 --> 01:18:18,099
yeah I don't think I'd live that

1136
01:18:33,129 --> 01:18:27,769
but you know with recent events over the

1137
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:33,139
last couple of years more credibility

1138
01:18:46,229 --> 01:18:40,489
has been given me by people who were

1139
01:18:51,459 --> 01:18:46,239
skeptical fence setters since the

1140
01:18:56,100 --> 01:18:51,469
release of the UFO footage that was

1141
01:19:03,219 --> 01:18:56,110
captured on US Air Force and Navy

1142
01:19:08,909 --> 01:19:03,229
fighter planes and that footage which

1143
01:19:16,020 --> 01:19:08,919
was only released a year ago this past

1144
01:19:21,699 --> 01:19:16,030
December in January in 2017 early 2018

1145
01:19:25,089 --> 01:19:21,709
for only a period of about four days was

1146
01:19:26,549 --> 01:19:25,099
this story ever reported and then once

1147
01:19:29,529 --> 01:19:26,559
it was off the air

1148
01:19:39,429 --> 01:19:29,539
you never heard anything more about it

1149
01:19:41,739 --> 01:19:39,439
mm-hmm but that footage was forced to be

1150
01:19:47,009 --> 01:19:41,749
released through the Freedom of

1151
01:19:52,449 --> 01:19:47,019
Information Act by Stanton Freeman and

1152
01:19:56,409 --> 01:19:52,459
Leslie King Leslie Kean is a reporter

1153
01:20:01,169 --> 01:19:56,419
for the New York Times and both she and

1154
01:20:05,790 --> 01:20:01,179
Stanton Freeman are longtime

1155
01:20:09,759 --> 01:20:05,800
investigators into the UFO phenomenon

1156
01:20:11,949 --> 01:20:09,769
and I've had the great privilege of

1157
01:20:17,069 --> 01:20:11,959
meeting and knowing them for many years

1158
01:20:21,969 --> 01:20:17,079
as as well as other people who've had

1159
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:21,979
similar experiences such as I met Betty

1160
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:28,880
Hill and shared our experience with her

1161
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:30,650
and

1162
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:42,410
she said that's the reason I believe you

1163
01:20:49,810 --> 01:20:46,970
and I've had similar experiences where

1164
01:20:52,390 --> 01:20:49,820
I've met people who've told me of

1165
01:21:00,060 --> 01:20:52,400
experiences that they've had one eye I

1166
01:21:09,300 --> 01:21:00,070
shared with you a few days ago right and

1167
01:21:26,500 --> 01:21:19,800
are very wishful and you know perhaps

1168
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:26,510
imaginative as well well but when you've

1169
01:21:35,940 --> 01:21:29,090
had an experience and you encounter

1170
01:21:44,110 --> 01:21:35,950
other people you can you know tell the

1171
01:21:49,660 --> 01:21:44,120
the truth from the BS right right

1172
01:21:52,090 --> 01:21:49,670
well that's basically it for the new

1173
01:21:54,130 --> 01:21:52,100
listener for the for the most part

1174
01:21:55,660 --> 01:21:54,140
there's a lot of things that happen

1175
01:21:58,810 --> 01:21:55,670
after and we can touch on that a little

1176
01:22:00,340 --> 01:21:58,820
bit later but you know we and we also

1177
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:00,350
have a bunch of questions that came in

1178
01:22:08,730 --> 01:22:04,490
as well and a little bit here we can we

1179
01:22:11,440 --> 01:22:08,740
can take some calls but can you describe

1180
01:22:12,910 --> 01:22:11,450
well first of all the drawings pretty

1181
01:22:17,290 --> 01:22:12,920
much lined up with each other

1182
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:17,300
for the most part right oh yeah I mean

1183
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:22,610
when we sat down with Ray and we were

1184
01:22:33,660 --> 01:22:26,810
looking at these drawings it was it was

1185
01:22:37,090 --> 01:22:33,670
like really shocking to us because I

1186
01:22:41,910 --> 01:22:37,100
hadn't seen the drawings of the other

1187
01:22:44,410 --> 01:22:41,920
three guys until I sat down that day

1188
01:22:49,450 --> 01:22:44,420
also we had never

1189
01:22:53,919 --> 01:22:49,460
prior to that set down meeting discussed

1190
01:22:58,600 --> 01:22:53,929
it openly and once we started relaying

1191
01:23:01,800 --> 01:22:58,610
or experienced when your throat got

1192
01:23:05,340 --> 01:23:01,810
parched or when you ran out of breath

1193
01:23:08,939 --> 01:23:05,350
the person seated next to you just

1194
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:08,949
continued with the events of that

1195
01:23:17,620 --> 01:23:11,840
experience do you know if that that when

1196
01:23:20,970 --> 01:23:17,630
we're done oh yeah I believe it was yeah

1197
01:23:26,979 --> 01:23:20,980
yeah so what I mean you could contact

1198
01:23:30,130 --> 01:23:26,989
ray flower yeah he lives in Kennebunk I

1199
01:23:37,390 --> 01:23:30,140
don't mean I'm sorry ray lives in

1200
01:23:39,430 --> 01:23:37,400
Kennebunk Maine no yes yes yeah so one

1201
01:23:41,740 --> 01:23:39,440
of the weirder question is amazing guy

1202
01:23:44,260 --> 01:23:41,750
yeah I know he really helped helped you

1203
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:44,270
all out a lot you know one of the

1204
01:23:49,150 --> 01:23:46,010
questions people want to know can you

1205
01:23:51,729 --> 01:23:49,160
describe what the beings looked like I

1206
01:23:55,709 --> 01:23:51,739
know you said they had big black eye but

1207
01:24:07,270 --> 01:23:55,719
more than that called the beings yeah

1208
01:24:12,910 --> 01:24:07,280
well they had a larger cranium than or a

1209
01:24:20,229 --> 01:24:12,920
larger skull then we have in comparison

1210
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:20,239
to their body size physically the beings

1211
01:24:26,830 --> 01:24:25,610
I remember and were shorter and stature

1212
01:24:32,260 --> 01:24:26,840
to me

1213
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:32,270
I'm 510 and I would imagine these things

1214
01:24:45,060 --> 01:24:38,810
came up on average at at the most you

1215
01:24:51,939 --> 01:24:45,070
know five feet tall and slightly shorter

1216
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:51,949
they were very very thin in body frame

1217
01:24:58,030 --> 01:24:56,210
almost mmm but not quite like a stick

1218
01:25:02,860 --> 01:24:58,040
figure type

1219
01:25:10,570 --> 01:25:02,870
of an individual the one thing that kind

1220
01:25:16,660 --> 01:25:10,580
of amazed me was their hands and as I

1221
01:25:21,630 --> 01:25:16,670
said I was in college at that time but I

1222
01:25:25,660 --> 01:25:21,640
went on to become a medical artist and

1223
01:25:30,670 --> 01:25:25,670
it was because of that experience of

1224
01:25:37,390 --> 01:25:30,680
that met medical exam that we underwent

1225
01:25:43,990 --> 01:25:37,400
and the observation of these beings

1226
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:44,000
because when Ray had us regressed and we

1227
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:46,880
did our drawings for Ray I was already

1228
01:25:55,810 --> 01:25:49,370
working as a medical artist at that time

1229
01:25:58,210 --> 01:25:55,820
and the hands on these beings did not

1230
01:26:02,440 --> 01:25:58,220
have an opposable thumb like we have

1231
01:26:06,460 --> 01:26:02,450
they only had four digits however they

1232
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:06,470
had in the heel or the palm of their

1233
01:26:17,860 --> 01:26:13,130
hand an articulating joint where two

1234
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:17,870
fingers two pairs of fingers would

1235
01:26:29,170 --> 01:26:21,890
oppose one another so in essence they

1236
01:26:33,070 --> 01:26:29,180
had four opposable digits the best way I

1237
01:26:37,210 --> 01:26:33,080
could explain it to you would be to take

1238
01:26:40,420 --> 01:26:37,220
your middle finger and your index finger

1239
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:40,430
on each hand and put your hands together

1240
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:45,370
and where your thumbs are now touching

1241
01:26:53,890 --> 01:26:50,090
rotate that is like a joint so now your

1242
01:26:58,720 --> 01:26:53,900
middle fingers and your index fingers

1243
01:27:01,300 --> 01:26:58,730
are able to touch tips and you would be

1244
01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:01,310
able to lift something up now with four

1245
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:05,450
digits as opposed to you know a thumb

1246
01:27:11,870 --> 01:27:10,490
and a finger a coefficient and all of

1247
01:27:19,330 --> 01:27:11,880
their technology

1248
01:27:26,630 --> 01:27:23,750
appendages like that Jack had drawn

1249
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:26,640
these incredible renderings Jim and

1250
01:27:43,010 --> 01:27:36,290
myself and and Chuck had some also

1251
01:27:47,180 --> 01:27:43,020
disturbing drawings he seemed to

1252
01:27:52,210 --> 01:27:47,190
remember them opening my chest he as he

1253
01:27:58,220 --> 01:27:52,220
depicted like the hood of a car I I

1254
01:28:01,970 --> 01:27:58,230
remember a panel coming down from

1255
01:28:06,230 --> 01:28:01,980
somewhere in the ceiling above me above

1256
01:28:11,300 --> 01:28:06,240
this table I was lying on and hovering

1257
01:28:18,740 --> 01:28:11,310
over my chest and it bathed my entire

1258
01:28:24,260 --> 01:28:18,750
upper torso in a blue light exactly the

1259
01:28:32,420 --> 01:28:24,270
same value and properties that this tube

1260
01:28:38,860 --> 01:28:32,430
of light that chased us chased after our

1261
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:38,870
canoe when we were in the water this I

1262
01:28:46,460 --> 01:28:42,330
discussed with some of the doctors that

1263
01:28:49,820 --> 01:28:46,470
I worked with as I mentioned I was a

1264
01:28:56,150 --> 01:28:49,830
medical artist at a teaching hospital in

1265
01:29:00,550 --> 01:28:56,160
the city of Boston and I talked with one

1266
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:00,560
of the doctors who had in come up with

1267
01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:05,250
the cardio defibrillator or paddles that

1268
01:29:16,270 --> 01:29:11,490
you see used and he knew about the

1269
01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:16,280
electric current in the heart and had

1270
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:25,770
improvised with stripping a lamp cord

1271
01:29:34,130 --> 01:29:30,330
and plugging it in and then touching the

1272
01:29:40,570 --> 01:29:34,140
bare wires to opposite sides of a

1273
01:29:45,410 --> 01:29:40,580
person's chest and so I talked with this

1274
01:29:47,990 --> 01:29:45,420
doctor this teacher about my UFO

1275
01:29:53,420 --> 01:29:48,000
experience he was one of the few that

1276
01:29:58,450 --> 01:29:53,430
did not scoff at me like you have to

1277
01:30:10,190 --> 01:29:58,460
remember this is back and happened in

1278
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:10,200
1976 and in the early 1990s is when the

1279
01:30:18,230 --> 01:30:12,770
book had already been published

1280
01:30:26,030 --> 01:30:18,240
time-life books had done a story about

1281
01:30:30,340 --> 01:30:26,040
us in their book series and we started

1282
01:30:36,050 --> 01:30:30,350
doing television interview programs and

1283
01:30:41,990 --> 01:30:36,060
among the first was Joan Rivers in New

1284
01:30:45,500 --> 01:30:42,000
York City unknown to me because the only

1285
01:30:49,370 --> 01:30:45,510
people that I worked with as far as

1286
01:30:56,270 --> 01:30:49,380
colleagues that I had ever shared my UFO

1287
01:30:59,650 --> 01:30:56,280
story with was my boss who knew me from

1288
01:31:06,370 --> 01:30:59,660
when I was in college and was aware of

1289
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:06,380
me retelling her about the UFO back in

1290
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:12,690
1976 and a fellow worker and they knew I

1291
01:31:17,900 --> 01:31:15,090
was going into New York City to do this

1292
01:31:20,740 --> 01:31:17,910
television program and they didn't tell

1293
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:20,750
anybody they were gonna watch it on a

1294
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:24,930
television at work well unknown to me

1295
01:31:32,630 --> 01:31:29,850
was that it was a live broadcast and in

1296
01:31:37,530 --> 01:31:32,640
the lobby at the hospital that I worked

1297
01:31:43,510 --> 01:31:37,540
at guess what they had on TV that day

1298
01:31:46,270 --> 01:31:43,520
so once and I mean I I was known by

1299
01:31:49,030 --> 01:31:46,280
everybody because as a medical

1300
01:31:53,110 --> 01:31:49,040
photographer and a clinical for the

1301
01:32:04,180 --> 01:31:53,120
medical photographer I was also asked to

1302
01:32:08,830 --> 01:32:04,190
photograph certain engineering disasters

1303
01:32:11,050 --> 01:32:08,840
that involved people getting injured I

1304
01:32:18,930 --> 01:32:11,060
would have to then go photograph things

1305
01:32:23,100 --> 01:32:18,940
I would have times helped the VA police

1306
01:32:26,950 --> 01:32:23,110
department with photographic issues

1307
01:32:30,460 --> 01:32:26,960
everywhere anything from doing video

1308
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:30,470
setups for them to recommending

1309
01:32:39,670 --> 01:32:33,370
equipment for their department to buy

1310
01:32:44,020 --> 01:32:39,680
and so there was no one that did not

1311
01:32:45,070 --> 01:32:44,030
know me and before Joan Rivers was off

1312
01:32:47,530 --> 01:32:45,080
the air

1313
01:32:50,860 --> 01:32:47,540
there was probably nobody in that

1314
01:32:55,390 --> 01:32:50,870
hospital that had not watched that

1315
01:33:01,950 --> 01:32:55,400
nurses were turning on the TV in the

1316
01:33:13,650 --> 01:33:05,470
everybody knew when I came back I did

1317
01:33:19,060 --> 01:33:13,660
have several fellow veteran employees

1318
01:33:22,450 --> 01:33:19,070
who approached me and shared experiences

1319
01:33:26,350 --> 01:33:22,460
that they had while in the military my

1320
01:33:31,900 --> 01:33:26,360
first experience was while I was in the

1321
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:31,910
military when I was in the United States

1322
01:33:40,830 --> 01:33:36,530
Navy I was a nuclear technician which is

1323
01:33:45,460 --> 01:33:40,840
one of the reasons I I like sciences and

1324
01:33:50,630 --> 01:33:45,470
medical sciences as a nuclear technician

1325
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:50,640
I had to study radiation effects

1326
01:33:58,190 --> 01:33:53,970
on the survivors of Hiroshima and

1327
01:34:02,480 --> 01:33:58,200
Nagasaki every year medical reports are

1328
01:34:05,450 --> 01:34:02,490
compiled upon the survivors as well as

1329
01:34:08,660 --> 01:34:05,460
their descendants and so I had to

1330
01:34:19,580 --> 01:34:08,670
familiarize myself with these annual

1331
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:19,590
reports and so may 1970 I was stationed

1332
01:34:32,230 --> 01:34:24,410
over in Europe on a nuclear submarine

1333
01:34:37,460 --> 01:34:34,940
collecting the coolant or the

1334
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:37,470
radioactive effluent from the nuclear

1335
01:34:56,270 --> 01:34:53,440
disposal and many times that meant

1336
01:35:00,400 --> 01:34:56,280
mixing it with concrete and then

1337
01:35:08,930 --> 01:35:00,410
shipping it back to the United States

1338
01:35:15,170 --> 01:35:08,940
however during a exercise at sea off the

1339
01:35:18,410 --> 01:35:15,180
coast of Spain in May of 1970 at the end

1340
01:35:24,310 --> 01:35:18,420
of the workday and right at dusk

1341
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:24,320
I was gathered with about 25 other

1342
01:35:34,700 --> 01:35:31,050
sailors and a commissioned officer and a

1343
01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:34,710
high-ranking enlisted men called a chief

1344
01:35:40,220 --> 01:35:37,920
petty officer who in the Army and the

1345
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:40,230
Marines and the Air Force would be a

1346
01:35:46,190 --> 01:35:42,650
high-ranking sergeant

1347
01:35:47,930 --> 01:35:46,200
well the smoking lamp as they would say

1348
01:35:50,090 --> 01:35:47,940
would be lit and that was when it was

1349
01:35:53,180 --> 01:35:50,100
more socially acceptable to smoke

1350
01:35:59,150 --> 01:35:53,190
cigarettes and many of us were all out

1351
01:36:03,640 --> 01:35:59,160
smoking and we noticed coming from

1352
01:36:07,669 --> 01:36:03,650
astern or from behind the ship these two

1353
01:36:12,890 --> 01:36:07,679
Speirs or points of light if you were to

1354
01:36:15,319 --> 01:36:12,900
take your arm and point off of one of

1355
01:36:19,339 --> 01:36:15,329
your shoulders in a straight line and

1356
01:36:22,729 --> 01:36:19,349
then swing your arm as fast as you can

1357
01:36:26,810 --> 01:36:22,739
possibly swing it and stop it

1358
01:36:31,250 --> 01:36:26,820
dead center in front of your chest these

1359
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:31,260
two spheres of light two points of light

1360
01:36:39,549 --> 01:36:35,610
came streaking by had such a velocity

1361
01:36:46,939 --> 01:36:39,559
and speed and then came to a dead stop a

1362
01:36:51,350 --> 01:36:46,949
breast from the ship on the starboard

1363
01:36:53,870 --> 01:36:51,360
side and just out of coincidence it was

1364
01:36:59,060 --> 01:36:53,880
the right hand side as we sat in the

1365
01:37:01,939 --> 01:36:59,070
canoe that the UFO that we saw in Maine

1366
01:37:03,250 --> 01:37:01,949
was on I never thought of that that's

1367
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:03,260
very nice

1368
01:37:12,290 --> 01:37:07,530
forty almost forty four years for Maine

1369
01:37:15,140 --> 01:37:12,300
and over 50 for the Navy Wow Wow

1370
01:37:17,629 --> 01:37:15,150
so can I throw a couple of questions at

1371
01:37:20,589 --> 01:37:17,639
you and and actually we have just

1372
01:37:23,540 --> 01:37:20,599
absolutely I'm sure someone wanted to

1373
01:37:26,750 --> 01:37:23,550
ask this and this is not to try to scare

1374
01:37:28,459 --> 01:37:26,760
you scare anyone but do you think if

1375
01:37:31,459 --> 01:37:28,469
people are isolated in the wilderness

1376
01:37:33,729 --> 01:37:31,469
and wilderness locations that they are

1377
01:37:38,899 --> 01:37:33,739
especially vulnerable to these type of

1378
01:37:42,109 --> 01:37:38,909
abductions oh no absolutely not

1379
01:37:45,290 --> 01:37:42,119
in fact point in case

1380
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:45,300
Jim Weiner one of the identical twins in

1381
01:38:02,259 --> 01:37:57,169
1995 in the summer of 1995 Jim Weiner

1382
01:38:08,180 --> 01:38:02,269
had moved back into Boston with his wife

1383
01:38:12,489 --> 01:38:08,190
he had been married since after his

1384
01:38:15,620 --> 01:38:12,499
brother got married he met this gal and

1385
01:38:17,330 --> 01:38:15,630
when they got married they moved into

1386
01:38:20,839 --> 01:38:17,340
the first floor

1387
01:38:23,030 --> 01:38:20,849
apartment directly beneath me when I

1388
01:38:27,950 --> 01:38:23,040
lived in the town of Brookline and

1389
01:38:30,620 --> 01:38:27,960
that's you know if you didn't know the

1390
01:38:33,830 --> 01:38:30,630
town lines if you were in Boston you

1391
01:38:37,100 --> 01:38:33,840
would not know if you had crossed in to

1392
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:37,110
Brookline from Boston it is that densely

1393
01:38:49,550 --> 01:38:45,210
populated the house next door to the one

1394
01:38:57,950 --> 01:38:49,560
I lived in was only divided by the width

1395
01:39:03,950 --> 01:38:57,960
of the driveway plus three feet so

1396
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:03,960
what's that less than twelve feet or so

1397
01:39:17,390 --> 01:39:09,770
between structures well in the summer of

1398
01:39:21,950 --> 01:39:17,400
1995 I got up one morning and I was

1399
01:39:24,080 --> 01:39:21,960
setting out in the front porch having a

1400
01:39:28,970 --> 01:39:24,090
cigarette drinking a cup of coffee and

1401
01:39:32,689 --> 01:39:28,980
reading the paper when my downstairs

1402
01:39:35,660 --> 01:39:32,699
neighbor the identical twin Jim came

1403
01:39:38,419 --> 01:39:35,670
walking up the driveway and I saw him

1404
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:38,429
and I said hey Jim I said you'll never

1405
01:39:44,419 --> 01:39:39,210
guess

1406
01:39:49,550 --> 01:39:44,429
I had an allagash flax flashback dream

1407
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:49,560
last night and he said you what and I

1408
01:39:53,209 --> 01:39:52,170
said yeah I had a weird allagash dream

1409
01:39:56,089 --> 01:39:53,219
last night

1410
01:40:02,209 --> 01:39:56,099
but it was different than anything that

1411
01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:02,219
I remembered earlier he said did did you

1412
01:40:09,530 --> 01:40:05,449
happen to notice the ivy on the house

1413
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:09,540
next door across from your bedroom and I

1414
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:14,330
said no why he said come with me so I

1415
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:17,130
picked up my cup of coffee and I walked

1416
01:40:23,390 --> 01:40:20,489
down the driveway directly across from

1417
01:40:29,540 --> 01:40:23,400
my bedroom window on the second floor

1418
01:40:32,770 --> 01:40:29,550
and directly above the bedroom that Jim

1419
01:40:41,350 --> 01:40:32,780
and his wife shared

1420
01:40:46,390 --> 01:40:41,360
was this giant cookie cutter round hole

1421
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:46,400
in the IV now this is on a stucco house

1422
01:40:53,979 --> 01:40:50,090
a stucco structure if people don't know

1423
01:40:57,459 --> 01:40:53,989
what stucco is that's basically concrete

1424
01:41:01,930 --> 01:40:57,469
that's sprayed or slopped on to a

1425
01:41:05,709 --> 01:41:01,940
building to give it a rough stone like

1426
01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:05,719
structure and appearance and great

1427
01:41:14,979 --> 01:41:11,690
weather sealant and once ivy grows on to

1428
01:41:16,930 --> 01:41:14,989
it it's difficult to pull off and get

1429
01:41:22,270 --> 01:41:16,940
off cleanly mm-hmm

1430
01:41:27,010 --> 01:41:22,280
but there was a nice perfectly round ten

1431
01:41:29,890 --> 01:41:27,020
foot in diameter section of clean stucco

1432
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:29,900
that when I had gone to bed that night

1433
01:41:40,570 --> 01:41:35,090
had been covered with Ivy Jim took

1434
01:41:44,890 --> 01:41:40,580
photographs of it and I've used them in

1435
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:44,900
a couple of presentations I've given

1436
01:41:57,850 --> 01:41:53,050
over the last few years but Jim also had

1437
01:42:05,170 --> 01:41:57,860
what he thought was a UFO dream that

1438
01:42:08,500 --> 01:42:05,180
night as well but Hopkins for any of

1439
01:42:14,410 --> 01:42:08,510
those that are familiar with him in the

1440
01:42:23,370 --> 01:42:14,420
UFO community but Hopkins was quite

1441
01:42:31,380 --> 01:42:23,380
famous he also worked with John Mac

1442
01:42:37,350 --> 01:42:31,390
during UFO investigations bud regressed

1443
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:37,360
Jim and myself about that incident in

1444
01:42:45,590 --> 01:42:40,610
1995 where the IV was removed from the

1445
01:42:50,180 --> 01:42:45,600
house and we had add

1446
01:42:53,750 --> 01:42:50,190
another UFO abduction experience right

1447
01:42:59,660 --> 01:42:53,760
in the middle of the city in the middle

1448
01:43:03,050 --> 01:42:59,670
of the summer in Jim thought that there

1449
01:43:06,380 --> 01:43:03,060
was a police car just outside of his

1450
01:43:10,700 --> 01:43:06,390
window because there was a blue flashing

1451
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:10,710
light the same flashing and the same

1452
01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:14,730
blue value as the panel that had been

1453
01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:19,050
above my chest and the this blue beam of

1454
01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:20,850
light that had chased us across the

1455
01:43:29,150 --> 01:43:26,250
lakes that's amazing and I know just

1456
01:43:31,270 --> 01:43:29,160
from other talks that some other

1457
01:43:35,630 --> 01:43:31,280
experiences have happened that are just

1458
01:43:37,790 --> 01:43:35,640
pretty weird and unexplainable just just

1459
01:43:39,100 --> 01:43:37,800
one thing we only have I can't believe

1460
01:43:43,580 --> 01:43:39,110
it we only have three minutes left

1461
01:43:45,380 --> 01:43:43,590
pardon me but just one thing that sorry

1462
01:43:48,890 --> 01:43:45,390
one thing that has come up a number of

1463
01:43:52,790 --> 01:43:48,900
times people say why does Chuck Rach say

1464
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:52,800
that you know why is he so against that

1465
01:44:00,530 --> 01:43:55,410
this thing ever even happened he's one

1466
01:44:06,230 --> 01:44:00,540
of the one of the four well in my my own

1467
01:44:10,370 --> 01:44:06,240
personal opinion chuck was kind of a an

1468
01:44:18,110 --> 01:44:10,380
over-the-top personality when I met him

1469
01:44:23,300 --> 01:44:18,120
and I I believe that he you know may

1470
01:44:32,390 --> 01:44:23,310
have you know just kind of snapped and

1471
01:44:38,570 --> 01:44:32,400
had some type of PTSD breakdown and he

1472
01:44:44,540 --> 01:44:38,580
you know he likes hard alcohol quite a

1473
01:44:47,810 --> 01:44:44,550
lot too so along the lines of of chart

1474
01:44:49,550 --> 01:44:47,820
did you see it was did he participate in

1475
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:49,560
the drawing scene and he had the same

1476
01:44:57,830 --> 01:44:53,610
drawings as well oh absolutely

1477
01:44:59,840 --> 01:44:57,840
in fact out of the four of us Chuck has

1478
01:45:06,880 --> 01:44:59,850
had

1479
01:45:12,380 --> 01:45:06,890
at least two huge art shows in Manhattan

1480
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:12,390
regarding his UFO experience and has

1481
01:45:18,670 --> 01:45:16,290
made a lot of money selling his artwork

1482
01:45:23,570 --> 01:45:18,680
and as soon as he does that and then

1483
01:45:29,420 --> 01:45:23,580
then he flips out and says no that this

1484
01:45:36,750 --> 01:45:29,430
never happened and so I you know I I

1485
01:45:38,260 --> 01:45:36,760
just don't associate with him anymore I

1486
01:45:43,880 --> 01:45:38,270
[Music]

1487
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:43,890
think he has some very serious problems

1488
01:45:55,550 --> 01:45:49,770
and you know like as I say could be like

1489
01:46:01,520 --> 01:45:55,560
pts PTSD related I think from you know

1490
01:46:05,330 --> 01:46:01,530
his I think I'm his not wanting go ahead

1491
01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:05,340
I'm sorry no no I I'm sorry about that

1492
01:46:09,950 --> 01:46:07,290
I'll just bring up something that you

1493
01:46:12,050 --> 01:46:09,960
and I talked off air for a few minutes I

1494
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:12,060
don't I don't argue with people on

1495
01:46:16,640 --> 01:46:14,370
Facebook very much but I got in quite a

1496
01:46:19,070 --> 01:46:16,650
discussion with someone and then I said

1497
01:46:23,510 --> 01:46:19,080
who is this guy and I clicked on his

1498
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:23,520
profile his jaw crack and it was kind of

1499
01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:24,810
a insane

1500
01:46:31,060 --> 01:46:27,290
well it was not a very good our

1501
01:46:35,480 --> 01:46:31,070
discussion I should say on his end but

1502
01:46:37,850 --> 01:46:35,490
anyway and yeah time has just gone away

1503
01:46:39,890 --> 01:46:37,860
here I can't believe it already and it

1504
01:46:41,990 --> 01:46:39,900
seemed like I had we had a quite a few

1505
01:46:44,870 --> 01:46:42,000
questions and and sorry we didn't get to

1506
01:46:47,630 --> 01:46:44,880
take any calls but it seems like we

1507
01:46:49,970 --> 01:46:47,640
could go on for another a few hours

1508
01:46:52,700 --> 01:46:49,980
because I know that a number of things

1509
01:46:56,230 --> 01:46:52,710
have happened afterwards and so perhaps

1510
01:47:02,510 --> 01:46:56,240
we can pick this up sometime and have a

1511
01:47:05,930 --> 01:47:02,520
session too well that that we could

1512
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:05,940
probably do yeah all right well Charlie

1513
01:47:11,150 --> 01:47:08,930
I want to thank you so much it's really

1514
01:47:11,510 --> 01:47:11,160
again it's always a pleasure talking to

1515
01:47:13,729 --> 01:47:11,520
you

1516
01:47:17,299 --> 01:47:13,739
and I think it's a

1517
01:47:20,439 --> 01:47:17,309
credible story and I have no doubt at

1518
01:47:24,890 --> 01:47:20,449
all that what happened happened and

1519
01:47:27,799 --> 01:47:24,900
thank you so much well you're welcome

1520
01:47:30,229 --> 01:47:27,809
and I'm sorry if I didn't get a chance

1521
01:47:38,029 --> 01:47:30,239
to answer anyone's questions it was

1522
01:47:44,140 --> 01:47:38,039
listening but if you want if you can

1523
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:44,150
find the unsolved mysteries broadcast

1524
01:47:53,899 --> 01:47:49,050
about our experience that's fairly

1525
01:47:58,720 --> 01:47:53,909
accurate or Ray Fowler's book the alley

1526
01:48:06,250 --> 01:47:58,730
ash abductions which is a very detailed

1527
01:48:12,379 --> 01:48:06,260
book and if you read it you know it will

1528
01:48:12,799 --> 01:48:12,389
enlighten you yeah tremendously all

1529
01:48:16,060 --> 01:48:12,809
right

1530
01:48:18,589 --> 01:48:16,070
ok charlie take care thank you very much

1531
01:48:22,129 --> 01:48:18,599
thank you have a good evening all right

1532
01:48:24,410 --> 01:48:22,139
you too alright everyone so that is it

1533
01:48:26,509 --> 01:48:24,420
for our show thank you so much for

1534
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:26,519
listening next week we'll be back with

1535
01:48:37,050 --> 01:48:30,449
John Greenwald and remember to keep your